American Income Tax: Voluntary, not Mandatory?

I didn't watch it either. I got it off another forum. here's the original post:

Its poor quality footage, i guess you could find other to see. Its drags a bit but little snippets of interesting information. Around 1hr 15 min, do i hear correctly, that they explain that the American IRS do not have the right under the constitution of the United states of america to take taxes from you via income you earn, that it is voluntary, not mandatory?[/b]
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Have no clue how true this is, but based on the number and quality of lawyers in the US, it would seem to me that if this was true then there would be lawyers advertising to do it all over the place.
 
Nah I watched it. Its about how if you do take it to the supreme court they bullshit their way out of it with a bunch of technical riff raff. Its true all quoted from the constitution.
 
Maybe the info is in one of the books sold by the annoying guy with the $s or ?s all over his suit
 
When I was working in the payroll dept at UTC doing Employee taxation, I had this guy that wanted us to stop deducting taxes from him. The government can require a company to deduct income taxes from an employee even if they sign a W-4 as exempt, and we got a letter for this guy. So we started taking taxes out from him. He sent in a 20 page document (notorized even) about how he didn't have to pay taxes, and that we were inforcing something illegal, and should be arrested or something funny.

I had a file that was thick because of this dude. We finally had the legal tax rep from the Gold Building give him a call. He kept sending in exempt W-4's in hopes that someone else would see it and put it in as exempt. He didn't know we had a spreadsheet with the 4-5 people on it the gov't required us to tax.

According to a team leader (and a decent tax expert), the guy was right, but no company would ever stand up to big brother.
 
Income tax unconstitutional, eh?

The Preamble states that "We the people" will "provide for the common defense," and "promote the general welfare." So we are each to pay for the common needs. Seems clear enough, but how?

Oh, here's something. It's called the 16th amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Hmm. What does it say?
"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

And yes, the 16th amendment is valid. 42 states ratified it. There are a ton of arguments why this ratification is invalid, but they basically amount to "Oh noes, Bigfoot ate the paperwork."
 
Well by all means "volunteer" to not pay your income tax and then let me know how that goes.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(djmtott @ Mar 30 2007, 12:39 AM) [snapback]150538[/snapback][/center]
Maybe the info is in one of the books sold by the annoying guy with the $s or ?s all over his suit
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I love that guy!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Madrigal @ Mar 30 2007, 10:36 AM) [snapback]150584[/snapback][/center]
Income tax unconstitutional, eh?

The Preamble states that "We the people" will "provide for the common defense," and "promote the general welfare." So we are each to pay for the common needs. Seems clear enough, but how?

Oh, here's something. It's called the 16th amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Hmm. What does it say?
"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

And yes, the 16th amendment is valid. 42 states ratified it. There are a ton of arguments why this ratification is invalid, but they basically amount to "Oh noes, Bigfoot ate the paperwork."
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I think their point was that the original constitution said they cant take different amounts from different people. IE: Texas the income tax is $2 for everyones, NJ its $5, NY is $8, so on and so on. Thats supposedly the constitutional way not basing it by the persons income.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stomis @ Mar 31 2007, 02:28 PM) [snapback]150689[/snapback][/center]
I think their point was that the original constitution said they cant take different amounts from different people. IE: Texas the income tax is $2 for everyones, NJ its $5, NY is $8, so on and so on. Thats supposedly the constitutional way not basing it by the persons income.
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I understand what you're saying. But the text of the 16th amendment of the Constitution is clear that taxes will be collected "without apportionment."

That they can't take different amounts from different people was the basic ruling of Pollock vs. Farmers., a Supreme Court case. Not the Constitution. The 16th amendment was then written and ratified to correct the oversight which allowed that ruling in the first place.

Here is an excellent resource that debunks most, if not all tax conspiracy theories. True, it's one man's opinion based on years of legal research, but links to Tax code and U.S. code are there for those who would like to do their own research and come to their own conclusions.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zana @ Mar 31 2007, 01:32 PM) [snapback]150743[/snapback][/center]
How many percent is the income tax in the States?
(Didnt feel like looking it up :P )
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Depends on income level and state you live in.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fluffy @ Mar 31 2007, 07:47 PM) [snapback]150753[/snapback][/center]
Depends on income level and state you live in.
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There isnt an avarage or? Or are the levels and tax completely diff in all states?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zana @ Mar 31 2007, 01:51 PM) [snapback]150755[/snapback][/center]
There isnt an avarage or? Or are the levels and tax completely diff in all states?
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Asking the wrong person. I have lived in states with 8% tax, 5% tax and 0% income tax. So, it is all over the map in my opinion.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zana @ Mar 31 2007, 01:51 PM) [snapback]150755[/snapback][/center]
There isnt an avarage or? Or are the levels and tax completely diff in all states?
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FL, NV, AK, NH, WY and I forget the others have no state income tax.

Don't go near KY. It is the WORST state for taxation simply because there are so many taxes just with income. State, School, District and last I heard they were working on an insurance tax.

Ohio and IL have local taxes as well. NYC has some for their burroughs.

There is a flat tax for bonuses, which is really the estimated tax someone would pay on an item. (when I worked in payroll it was 25% for federal (has probably gone up or down since then) and 6% for CT. I forget which states, but some were up to 9% (maybe CA...)

Oh, and work in CT and live in NY or vice versa? No receprocity exists and you have to pay taxes for BOTH states. I knew some upset Sikorsky guys.

MA and CT are pretty bad too, but I think we have a nicer agreement. IL and MO I know because we had to deal with taxation the year Voren moved here. They pay MO during the year. MO gives the taxes back (after a small cut for themselves, of course), and then they have to pay IL. Wasn't fun.

(Btw for those who aren't from the US FL = Florida, NV = Nevada, NH = New Hampshire, WY = Wyoming AK = Alaska KY = Kentucky CT = Connecticut MA = Massachusetts NY = New York, IL= Illinois and MO = Missouri.)
 
Madrigal wins the thread.

Basically everyone that argues that taxes are unconstitutional questions the validity of the 16th Amendment. This is largely because when states ratified it some of them used very slightly different wording or had grammatical mistakes. But, rest assured, the Supreme Court recognizes the validity of the 16th Amendment.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tiveria @ Mar 31 2007, 09:55 PM) [snapback]150767[/snapback][/center]
FL, NV, AK, NH, WY and I forget the others have no state income tax.

Don't go near KY. It is the WORST state for taxation simply because there are so many taxes just with income. State, School, District and last I heard they were working on an insurance tax.

Ohio and IL have local taxes as well. NYC has some for their burroughs.

There is a flat tax for bonuses, which is really the estimated tax someone would pay on an item. (when I worked in payroll it was 25% for federal (has probably gone up or down since then) and 6% for CT. I forget which states, but some were up to 9% (maybe CA...)

Oh, and work in CT and live in NY or vice versa? No receprocity exists and you have to pay taxes for BOTH states. I knew some upset Sikorsky guys.

MA and CT are pretty bad too, but I think we have a nicer agreement. IL and MO I know because we had to deal with taxation the year Voren moved here. They pay MO during the year. MO gives the taxes back (after a small cut for themselves, of course), and then they have to pay IL. Wasn't fun.

(Btw for those who aren't from the US FL = Florida, NV = Nevada, NH = New Hampshire, WY = Wyoming AK = Alaska KY = Kentucky CT = Connecticut MA = Massachusetts NY = New York, IL= Illinois and MO = Missouri.)
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Thanks :)
And remember, Im from Sweden where income tax is just over 31%...tho, we get quite a lot for that, but thats another story, and I think we've been over that already ^_^
 
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